1. Active Poll: Clan Wars Map Vote

Delete Old Bans

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by 1nfomercial, 26 Jan 2019.

  1. 1nfomercial

    1nfomercial Well-Known Member Donator

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    Delete bans that are older than maybe 5, 6, or even 10 years?

    Please, do not just vote "No", cause you have never received a ban. Think of those who may have done something wrong half a decade ago and do not want to be publicly listed anymore.

    I personally think there is no point to have bans listed from 2013 and older.
     
  2. ///M3Power

    ///M3Power Well-Known Member Gameserver admin Donator

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    Hey,
    I don't think that the old bans should be deleted as they help us admins to determine how long the ban should be issued to an individual/rule breaker. Simply said, we need its (Sourcebans records which will then give us additional informations about the individual, for example if the individual has previous punishments issued for the same reason etc. to make a proper decision in the end - ban length) full records.
    Cheers mate.
     
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  3. Lotus

    Lotus Well-Known Member Staff Member Special Admin Tech Admin Donator

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    The only bans we have this old are permanent bans, and for good reason
     
  4. 1nfomercial

    1nfomercial Well-Known Member Donator

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    Permanent bans obviously have to remain.

    I do not know how it is going to help an admin to determine the length of a new ban if there are records of bans that are from 2013 and before.
    For example, if my previous ban was 1 week for racism in 2012, will I be banned for 2 weeks in 2019?!
    That is why I would like old bans to be deleted:
    • Admins should not be influenced by bans that are half a decade old. and out of personal experience, I can share that they sometimes are.
    • Second, a player does not want to publicly share a mistake that happened a long time ago.
     
  5. Lotus

    Lotus Well-Known Member Staff Member Special Admin Tech Admin Donator

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    They aren't, if it happens they shouldn't be, bans that are way older shouldn't follow the usual progressively larger ladder

    Then don't break rules? This is like saying sorry I assaulted that person 10 years ago but I'm all good now and having this on my record tarnishes my character... if you can't handle it maybe don't do it?
     
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  6. 1nfomercial

    1nfomercial Well-Known Member Donator

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    Comparing an assaulted person in real life with breaking a cade in online gaming? buuhhhh
    And if you say that older bans "shouldn't follow the usual progressively larger ladder", they can also just be deleted. Maybe you can't relate, cause you've never been banned before. There are almost 16.400 bans listed. Don't stigmatize rule breakers.
     
  7. Oliver

    Oliver Well-Known Member GoFree admin

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    I mean it's called an analogy... You take a general principle and apply it to another situation that isn't exactly the same to (usually) more easily protray the flaw in that line of logic. Tbf though I would probably not hold someone accountable for an assault they committed 10 years ago, since that's quite a long time and people change. Not really fair IMO to hold a 26 year old accountable for some violent act they comitted as an ignorant teen for example. Indeed if we're not gonna use the bans for the progressive ladder anyways, it does seem like they're just there to.. shame people?
     
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  8. 1nfomercial

    1nfomercial Well-Known Member Donator

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    Thank you, @Oliver. I can totally relate.
    In 2014, I was banned for racism. I am ashamed and embarressed that it happened and it is listed there. I am accountable for that mistake and faced the consquences. I should not have done it, but it happened which is not excusable. But I definitely do not want it to be listed there some time later when I am in my early 30s.

    And that is just an example. Meaning, I did not create this thread to have this particular ban of mine deleted ASAP. I tried to think bigger and community like.
     
    Last edited: 26 Jan 2019
  9. Lotus

    Lotus Well-Known Member Staff Member Special Admin Tech Admin Donator

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    Bans are maintained for the sake of record keeping. You'll notice in your case that your old bans for language in 2014 are irrelevant now and were not used to determine the length when I banned you in December. We aren't going to remove old bans simply because people who broke rules don't want it publicly known. Should think about that before you break the rules if it's such a big deal mate.

    @Oliver Just because someone changes doesn't mean something from their past should be completely struck from the record.
     
  10. Oliver

    Oliver Well-Known Member GoFree admin

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    I mean.. why not? You're just making a statement there without justifying it whatsoever. The way I see it you're keeping record of previous offences to gradually improve the punishment for the next offence, given comitting the same action a short period of time after the initial one, would indicate the person possibly having a tendancy to do x action. Either that or you would do it to simply preemtively discourage someone from doing said action again, given the threat of a harsher punishment. As far as I can tell if we're not going to use these for anything punishment related then there's no real reason to keeping them public. Saying someone should have "thought of that" half a decade ago when they broke the rules is just a non-argument. Literally begging the question.
     
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  11. Lotus

    Lotus Well-Known Member Staff Member Special Admin Tech Admin Donator

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    The previous bans are still used for punishment purposes. Just because someone hasn't had a ban for a couple years does not mean they'll just start off at the bottom of the ladder. If someone had 6 blocking bans and was up to a 1 month ban 3 years ago, if they were banned for blocking again today they wouldn't get to just start with a 1 hour ban again, but given the length of time between bans they may see something like a 1 or 2 week ban, rather than a 2 or 3 month ban.

    There should be no argument here,
    There are no bans except permanent ones listed past 2013, end of discussion
     
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  12. easy

    easy Well-Known Member Staff Member Special Admin EliteHunterz Clan Member Donator

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    Reasons why we wont delete old bans are pretty obvious and well explained by Lotus and M3Power.

    If you dont want old bans to affect new ban's length my advice is: Stop breaking rules and play fair.
     
  13. Oliver

    Oliver Well-Known Member GoFree admin

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    I can agree that they should probably affect the length of a new ban, but I can definitely see a point in not keeping old bans public, so far the person hasn't broken any rules for multiple years. Just seems like needless shaming :)
     
  14. easy

    easy Well-Known Member Staff Member Special Admin EliteHunterz Clan Member Donator

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    I just saw him teamkilling last week... blocking this week. And warned him.

    If he wants to play with a clean account he can make a new one... wont protect him from being punished if caught teamkilling or trolling again tho.
     
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  15. 1nfomercial

    1nfomercial Well-Known Member Donator

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    Last week? I can not relate. Besides, I have never complained about any given ban.
    And this thread is not about me. Please, don't make this personal. But if you insist, I was banned in 2014 for racism which has not happened again. So why would you still have it listed there. So far, I was not given a reasonable explanation.
    I do not want this discussion to lose its focus. Please, do not be stubborn. I did not create this thread to aggressively try to insert an idea of mine. Just because you have a different opinion than me, does not mean I disagree with you.

    Maybe regular players like to contribute who have been or have not been banned before and can relate. Cause so far all admins besides @Oliver share the same opinion which does not surprise me.

    This is why I had a poll. But someone decided to censor my thread without my permission.

    I see bans that are indeed from 2013. So no end of discussion! Generally, my idea is that bans will constantly be deleted that are older than 5 or 6 years. In other words, in 2020 bans from 2014 will be deleted, in 2021 bans from 2015, etc. ...as an idea that can be adjusted.
     
    Last edited: 26 Jan 2019
  16. Dataworm

    Dataworm Ex-Admin Ex Admin

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    I also got an old ban myself for blocking. I was never aware of blocking anyone at that time I got banned (i was on moo sign on cbble but quite sure I was far enough away from edge to not block anyone). I was never warned or anything like that beforehand (at those times it was obviously not usual to warn/punish/kick first). I was already an active (slightly old) player at that time and even if I blocked surely not on purpose.

    What I am trying to say is: I may say that this ban was not really justified and should be marked as invalid oder deleted. Since it was just a short ban, the time was over before I could discuss that with admins in more detail. So you might agree that I have good reasons to complain about having such a bad record. But I don't complain, it is the way it is and I don't really care about it... Just my 2 cents...
     
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  17. rhodo

    rhodo Member

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    Old bans should stay. I got couple - the one I value most is sticking other zombie into that pallet of money in high school map - banned from @Dataworm ;-)
     
  18. Dataworm

    Dataworm Ex-Admin Ex Admin

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    I bet you made a screenshot, printed it as poster and placed it directly near your bed?! xD
     
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  19. Baltazar

    Baltazar Member

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    Play like me, 5000h on ZM no bans, game have rules, you brake it your fault.....
     
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  20. 1nfomercial

    1nfomercial Well-Known Member Donator

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