Kill Assist extra points - Feedback Needed

Discussion in '[CS:S] EliteHunterZ's ZombieHunting & more' started by Nikooo777, 26 Feb 2018.

  1. Nikooo777

    Nikooo777 Well-Known Member Head Admin Administrator EliteHunterz Clan Member

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    Hey everyone!

    Just recently (yesterday) I added a new plugin on V1 that gives you a couple of points on the scoreboard (no stats points!!!) for when you deal more than 700hp (we will tune this) of damage to a zombie but don't get the final kill.
    The stars on the scoreboard are what normal servers call MVP stars. The number next to a Star tells you how many assists you've dealt.

    Our goal is to compensate stolen kills. What do you think of this new addition?
    Do you like it?
    What would you change?
    zm_office_outbreak_htrs0000.jpg
     
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  2. KURD

    KURD Well-Known Member EliteHunterz Clan Member Gameserver admin

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    I do like it! But whats the total HP of a normal fatty? Also how about the motherfatty(zombie-starter)? 700hp out of 3k from a mother-fatty sounds like a assist-steal to me :)
     
  3. TheDude

    TheDude Well-Known Member Gameserver admin Tech Admin Donator

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    All I can say is, it was a good idea to add it to the V1 server and can't wait to have it on V3 :)
     
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  4. Tuxedo_Mask

    Tuxedo_Mask Well-Known Member Gameserver admin Donator

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    Finally, you can see that I'm not a noob and others always steal my kills :p
     
  5. Nikooo777

    Nikooo777 Well-Known Member Head Admin Administrator EliteHunterz Clan Member

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    2100 HP per fatty, thus we think we'll change the 700hp to 1050 (half)
     
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  6. Blue™

    Blue™ Actually red EliteHunterz Clan Member Gameserver admin Tech Admin Donator

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    I think you should, 700 damage is one shot with shotgun if you aim right to the head. Seems a bit easy for the advanced shotgun players we have on the servers.

    Other than that, I think the assist system is a good thing right now. As my friend said it might not be the perfect idea to motivate people to hunt but atleast it gives most of the players satisfaction that they're doing some useful
     
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  7. Nikooo777

    Nikooo777 Well-Known Member Head Admin Administrator EliteHunterz Clan Member

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    i applied the change right after posting :)
    let me know!
     
  8. Finny

    Finny Well-Known Member Gameserver admin Donator

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    ... Just my thoughts; ...

    I was first against this +2 points on scoreboard add, found it like it's not needed. CT's already have +4 points for killing a zombie. In the end it turns out to be fine.
    I like to get something in return of damaging a zombie a lot not getting the kill.
    I now think that we should focus the zombies, boost up the points for playing as a zombie, encourage people to play the zombie role.

    As you are still not getting any bonuses for infecting CT's, I suggest we add something like (if possible):
    If you're able to infect 4 CT's as a zombie you will get +2 points on the scoreboard.
    If you're able to infect 7 CT's will give you additional +2 points = +4 points on the scoreboard.
    If you're able to infect 10 CT's will give you additional +2 points = +6 points on the scoreboard.
    If you manage to get yourself on the so called "godlike mode" and infect over 12 CT's you will get additional +6points = +12points on the scoreboard.
    This might lower the amount of people who just let CT's kill themselves instead of actually playing the zombie role.

    Let me know what you people think of this add, and if the points are correctly 'balanced'.
     
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  9. Paul Bakker

    Paul Bakker Ex-Admin Ex Admin Donator

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    @Nikooo777 Super idea. Now you get also point for shooting and not only if you are the final who kills.
     
  10. Docta

    Docta Well-Known Member Donator

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    On one side you have the humans which have a very low skill floor, meaning pretty much anyone can use them in at least the most basic way (stay stationary and shoot). I see folk top or near top on the scoreboard who can't even fast climb ladders or even attempt to do RB's.The basic play on the humans side (camp and shoot) is the low hanging fruit, nothing wrong with that idea but that way of playing translates to the scoreboard too well when you weigh it up against the zombie side.

    On the zombie side, you have a higher skill floor which almost acts as an entry barrier in some ways, using them even in a basic way isn't easy and is even less so when most prefer the camp & shoot (their movement gets no practice), sometimes they can cause more harm than good. So what you get on the zombie side is this sometimes: some top scorers going to a corner to suicide and return to human form to farm more points (even requesting to be killed), some afk'ing till the round is over, some messing around (cos who likes being shredded with impunity over and over). I enjoy using the zombie a lot of the time but it can be demoralizing when no one else wants to put some legwork in. For instance, i can go a zombie and at times do well enough to break some camp spots, rarely breaking most of their strong points but what does it translate to on the board? Almost nothing, you bust your ass off dwindling their ammo and evading to conserve enough health, you get up there and get one slice in, if you are lucky you will get more in but usually your hit will be a jumping glance hit, the other will turn and finish the group off, so you do all that for one point. Not that points is the goal or anything, to me the reward is in creating plays and finding ways of busting up the humans and there is nothing wrong with the gameplay, but if it's on the subject of the scoreboard then it's extremely unrewarding for zombies.

    Zombies have to almost always be aggressive in their plays, humans have the option of lethargy and are rewarded more for it. Seems lopsided but i ain't been here long and am probably talking shite. :rolleyes:
     
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  11. WolfRam

    WolfRam Retired SPA/HA Retired SPA/HA Donator

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    I think something like this is a good idea. it might remove some of the rejoins too.
    im thinking zm will get:
    03 kills = 1 bonuspoint
    06 kills = 2 bonuspoints
    09 kills = 4 bonuspoints
    12 kills = 5 bonuspoints
    15 kills = 10 bonuspoints (dont think i have ever seen 15)

    you are not, zm skills are needed and making it more attractive to be ZM might be the way to go
     
  12. Finny

    Finny Well-Known Member Gameserver admin Donator

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    Thanks for agreeing.
    I think the scaling is fine.
    But i'd remove the 12 and 15 kills and make them be together as +12 kills = 8 or 10 bonus points.
     
  13. KURD

    KURD Well-Known Member EliteHunterz Clan Member Gameserver admin

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    Guys we already have this bonus implemented for zombies...
     
  14. Havoc

    Havoc Well-Known Member Staff Member Special Admin

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    They mean on the scoreboard, not points to their rank.

    I am strongly against all of this, adding extra points for assists makes it easier for campers to get good scores. Imagine on cbble, 5 ct's on a box 10 zombies tries to get up, the 5 ct's can easily kill all of them and they get so much points because they get assists as well. Adding more points for zombie kills has it's benefits but why do we change something that has been the same for ages? How does this improve the player base? What about the players who don't want changes? Players on v1 have often if not always been against any change, a lot of players want things to stay the way it has always been, maybe with the only change of adding/removing a map every now and then, but it's just annoying for some players and even if you are a new player and you get a few more points because of assists and extra zombie kills, why does it make you stay longer on the server, ye people like high scores but if all get high scores what's good about it? It still requires skills to get kills, it doesn't require skills to get an assist unless you are very unlucky and get your kill stolen after dealing like +1500 damage, but that doesn't even happen often and even if you get your kill stolen sooner or later you will also steal a kill from someone else. The game has always been like this, changing something there is no need for will upset more players than it will please.
     
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  15. ThirtyEight

    ThirtyEight Well-Known Member Staff Member Special Admin EliteHunterz Clan Member

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    I think its the oppsoite. I think adding points for assists benefits hunters, as they often get their kills stolen by campers. Campers in general will just shoot on any zombies they see from their spot and their kills will thus mostly be from lasthitting and not from actually doing the majority damage. Instead hunters, who chase after zombies, will on most cases have dealt the majority damage on kills. So I think this change is especially good for hunters. And about your argument for not having changes; I dont think its healthy for a game to always stay the same, I mean V1 itself has had plenty of changes throughout the years... And this change isnt that big
     
  16. Havoc

    Havoc Well-Known Member Staff Member Special Admin

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    Campers often deal a lot of damage to zombies that tries to get them, then hunters come around and shoot the zombies. I don't see how it's a benefit for hunters at all. I agree that occasionally changes are good but i don't support this one, it's an unnecessary change that won't do any good.

    If a change can make more players join the servers like with the respawn thing i do support it even if i don't like it.
     
  17. PARA

    PARA Well-Known Member Gameserver admin Donator

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    Oh well.. i think it was a good idea, adding points for assists ( well done! ) but i don't like the idea adding extra points for zombie kills idk.. i think havoc is right and I totally agree with him.
     
  18. Docta

    Docta Well-Known Member Donator

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    This is probably going to sound dickish but i don't care, other folk here have no problem being abrasive so i'm sure you are big boys and girls. If you disagree you should post why or it just becomes some vote (if that is what you are after then ok).

    There are sound arguments for both i think, backlash and complaints can be a good reason especially if there is a history of it. If someone is after points they will enjoy going human and camp, if they want points and action they will enjoy going human and hunting, if someone wants more challenge based on their movement then they will enjoy using the zombie, you wouldn't want to interrupt even the camping role as these are some of the things people enjoy and make the server good. I think one thing to consider (seeing as it's community driven/created) is to ask anyone who enjoys using the zombie if they care about the points. I bet most don't give a single iota of shit that the points are low, cos they use the zombie for the emergent scenarios from movement that can occur or be created.

    Aye, the scoring is shite for zombies but i doubt anyone using them cares about that and i would be surprised if you received any complaints about it either.
     
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  19. LosT

    LosT Ex-Admin Ex Admin

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    I like the aspect of this, but remember lasthitting is a skill we have developed over years of slaying fattiez.
     
  20. Docta

    Docta Well-Known Member Donator

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    Probably not still being discussed but i want to provide more context to my last post as it sounds crass without it. What i really meant was that zombie scoring is underwhelming but is it a problem if the people controlling them don't care?

    On the human side, points are always on the back of your mind, even the most modest of folk get that thirst for points as a human. Like most online games, it all plays into the way others see you as a player and it's part of the reason people enjoy shooting gallery style maps like kapras and canals (whether or not it's your playstyle isn't the point), the larger population on the server is owed to catering for many playstyles. Fire on a map geared towards zombies, watch people complain or rtv it to an easier map for humans. People love points as a human and you can even feel a tang of disappointment losing a lot of kills you are aiming for.

    On the zombie side it's the complete opposite, as soon as you turn you start doing shit like checking the scoreboard to measure up your next steps, thinking about when to prepare an ambush, locating where the bulk of the other zombies are, deciding which is the softest targets to hit first and increase the zombie count. It's never really about points as the zombie, the "point" for a kill is almost just a formality. That idea is reinforced by the fact that you don't feel any tang of disappointment through not getting the kill, rather you are just happy their siege is broken (and will even congratulate the breaker). Despite points not being the motivation there is always exceptions that prove the rule, now and then you get 2 zombies fighting over who is going to be boosted, increasing the scoring might also increase that kind of bullshittery, it would certainly alter the motivation of some.

    This doesn't need a reply or anything, just for context.