this paragraph was written after finishing the initial message. this is a warning that this is the most scroll bhop theory thing probably ever published on this forum and is incredibly complex, covering multiple ideas, concepts and solution ideas for this problem. i personally dont deem this unban appeal to be finished until this was properly read and answered to and this is probably mostly a
@Nikooo777 post as this has to do with having to create another plugin if this 'rule' really were to be followed through and if the result were to be fair and flawless to everybody. have fun reading and possibly learning something new.
Let’s clear up the technical misunderstanding here and get straight to the point of why this rule exists and how it applies to your case.
You are correct regarding the literal, technical definition: hardware-side "Hyperscroll" is indeed a free-spinning mouse wheel feature.
okay, this ends the discussion with dhoudz regarding on what hyperscroll is. This means that dhoudz was in fact saying something wrong regarding on what a hyperscroll is and how it functions and continued this through several messages in the unban appeal.
However, from a server administration and gameplay balancing perspective, we focus on the result and the input density rather than the specific hardware model you own.
Our rules target the generation of an excessive number of jump commands within a fraction of a second (input spamming). Whether this massive command chain is triggered by an unlocked hardware wheel, a software macro, or any other method does not change the impact on the server and the gameplay. The effect is identical: it floods the server with inputs to manipulate the landing physics for an unfair bunnyhop advantage.
Even the thread you linked supports this exact threshold: a normal, clean mouse-wheel scroll averages a few inputs per jump, while anything pushing far into double digits per jump cycle triggers our detection and is treated the same as a macro, because the mechanical advantage gained is identical.
and now you have steered into the most interesting and difficult question of this entire debate: what is considered a normal-range for inputting jumps. and this is impossible to answer and leads into more technical issues and on how to handle them.
i have friends from other css servers, that also can bunnyhop and they are also admin on said server. and since they are admin on the server they can view their own bhop logs. and, completely naturally, when they try their bhop they scroll for a pretty high number of jump inputs. averaging more on 8, even though they are just doing their normal mousewheel stroke routine to jump. and i think every player varies in the amount of jump inputs they legitimately input per normal routine wheel stroke. thats why sour in said thread also said that an average of 10+ is an INDICATION for hyperscrollers/macros. perhaps there is even players that for some reason manage to do 12 inputs in a normal stroke for them.
but here is the problem, my normal stroke when i normally bhop only averages around 5 inputs per bhop as far as i observed myself. but hm, i could also go for a longer stroke, just like the other players apparently unintentionally do and get more jumps to be at the 10+ mark. and this is the problem, what is considered an actual advantage and what not. as i said, when i comfortably scroll i average 5 inputs and its fine, but others when they do their comfortable scroll reach 10+, unintentionally, but still making a big difference in those vent hops.
vent hops are special. because the amount of bhops you hit actually perfectly correlate to how many jump inputs you do. in a normal bhop you average around 0.6 seconds of airtime, the amount of bhops done are 1 however even though you input for example 10 jump inputs. why is that? well you are obviously not on the ground when those jump inputs are delivered and therefore cant bhop. because you can only jump when the current tick registers that you are on the ground, and the server runs on 66 tick. and a jump input can also only be delivered by ticks. basically, the game refreshes around ever 0.015 seconds and checks if somebody jumps. to be even more exact, when you input a jump you send +jump and -jump commands, -jump being needed before another +jump so that you can actually jump again, this basically is the reason why you cant autobhop by holding spacebar: by holding you actually only send 1 +jump input, releasing the spacebar sends the -jump and then you are able to do another +jump to actually jump, if you are on the ground on the tick when that +jump is delivered. so basically if i do 10 jump inputs, which the plugin only counts the +jump inputs of (i can explain why it has to be like that, but thats unnecessary long), then, because the -jumps also takes a tick, that would mean i you would have these 10 jump inputs delivered in 20 ticks. so basically your airtime in which the values of 'jump' change is 19 ticks long, and 19 times a 1/66th of a second is around 0.29 seconds. as i said, a normal jump lasts with an airtime of around .6 seconds, and if we assume that the scroll is flawless, meaning there is no sudden 1 tick or higher gaps of where a +jump wasnt sent bc u lowkey scrolled in a too slow rate, that means those +jumps were sent where you were not registered to be on the ground and therefore dont jump off, you are in the air.
so i said vent hops are special, why? well 'the amount of bhops you hit actually perfectly correlate to how many jump inputs you do', why? because you dont have a normal airtime, your head immediately hits the roof and brings you back down to the ground. this varies on how tight the crouch hole vent is, in the minimal scenario, your next tick immediately registers you on the ground again, which actually guarantees speed loss since the next tick after your +jump in a vent will be a -jump, so you lose speed to friction for 1 tick always and will slow down to a full stop eventually after enough ticks passed (whatever that amount is), but spamming +jumps still makes you lose that speed faster than not jumping at all, in theory probably makes the slow down process twice as long than when you dont jump. there is other more high vents that dont make you land on the ground immediately after jump and actually let you bhop perfectly to keep your speed. but thats somewhat of a side not, i want this detailed and exact because this is technical and cant just say "hyperscroll is scrolling your mouse wheel" as a definition.
but this trait that you are immediately on the ground again and dont have airtime in vents, makes EVERY JUMP INPUT count, and leads to an inconsistent rule basis. with me averaging for 5 inputs per scroll, i am jumping in the vent for a time period of 0.15 seconds, however a player that as i explained naturally has a higher input count and unintentionally just scrolls longer has 10 inputs per scroll, meaning they jump for 0.3 seconds into the vent. this would be a clear disadvantage to me if i want to do such a vent bhop, so what i can do is make my scroll stroke longer-... oh, thats kind of not allowed apparently. and this, is unfair. where is the limit of time for long you can have your scroll stroke last, without it being against the rules? and is this even detectable, the anticheat plugin would need to be able to catch the airtime a player has between jumps and then count for how many ticks they spammed constantly, the normal hyperscroll detector would not work bc it requires way more jump inputs, i myself tested how many inputs i do in my long scroll, and i do about 30 which is 0.9 seconds, so anything at 0.45+ seconds which is 15+ jump inputs would be against the rules. but again is this really necessary, is this really an unfair advantage to other players if they can just do the exact same thing regardless of hardware. and i only use this for vents aka crouchspots, and they are supposed to not be allowed you said yourself recently in a mapping thread
so as explained, this is just a very hard to define thing. other players that naturally have longer scrolls like managing 10 jump inputs have a big advantage over me that naturally scrolls for only 5 jump inputs, so i should be allowed to match the length i scroll for. but manually, unnaturally making a longer scroll makes it hard to properly manage how many jumps exactly i scroll for, optimally i would want to be at just below the 'against the rules' threshold, but what if i were to accidentally scroll too much? you would need that plugin to properly detect this and then what, ban me for trying to make fairness for everybody, even though already could just be allowed to use their whole finger and handle their regular mousewheel as they want? ideally, the plugin would maybe not let me input a jump again for 0.5 seconds (which would fully slow speed) if i went over the threshold. but i dont think that plugin would really be pushed out by Niko because thats just
and the last plugin he pushed out to limit my movement lowkey took... 6 months and more than a year of dms to actually be out and have me unbanned and playing again.
so how do you handle this problem? i dont think you can fix it by blocking every single pathway or spot that requires crouching (even though such things are apparently not allowed for maps anymore), because pretty much 80% of the maps in rotation has such a spot or pathway.
So if you cant modify the maps. probably cant make a plugin to properly limit this. and somehow trying to dictate players to not manually, unnaturally scroll for a longer period of time than they normal would, making it unfair for players who naturally scroll less inputs. what option is there to really enforce the 'rule' without advantaging others and still trying to make gameplay balanced. well, i dont think there is any unless you go with the plugin option that would need to be tested properly aswell (SOMEHOW), so i dont really see the point in this 'rule'.
as i have already gone into detail in a message in the abuse report, a long scroll stroke like i did is just a biomechanical skill available to everybody and their mouse. this is just a skillful action, thats just like all the other biomechanical movements like strafing in bhop, aiming with a mousegrip etc. and everybody has the power to do just what i do, not having any unfair advantages. and i think everybody can use their regular peripherals that arent modified how they please with their body. thats a skill. you can also make an argument that having your jump bound to scroll is causing even bigger disadvantages in gameplay, skill, and keeping things fair, since many people dont use scroll but the spacebar to jump. but more detail about this topic of biomechanical skill is as i said in that message in the abuse report here:
https://forum.elite-hunterz.com/threads/abuse-report-dhoudz.15593/#post-117110 (message number #10)
Even the thread you linked supports this exact threshold: a normal, clean mouse-wheel scroll averages a few inputs per jump, while anything pushing far into double digits per jump cycle triggers our detection and is treated the same as a macro, because the mechanical advantage gained is identical.
and to this i would argue that what im doing is not comparable to a hyperscroll/macro because using these tools/modification dont completely compare to the the skill required to do what i do. and its also not comparable with the maximum extend that those tools can go to compared to the legit long mousewheel stroke that i do. this is also explained in the message in my abuse report (msg #10) with more detail. if however, for some reason even after listing countless flaws and problems with this rule, you still think what i did counts as against the rules, then i would still argue that this is just still not included in the server rules. this has nothing to do with a cheat, a macro or a hyperscroll mouse feature (all 3 listed as against the rules). this is something completely different thing that would need very precise wording to properly formulate as a rule. you cant translate 'hyperscroll, a mouse feature that allows the mouse to spin freely is forbidden' to also saying that you cant spam jump inputs for a very specific, too long time in a crouchspot/pathaway. that would need to be the exact rule, and thats again just somewhat hard for players to, idk if players can count that they scrolled for 0.48 seconds instead of the maximum allowed time of 0.45 seconds, and again all they did is scroll their mousewheel. scrolling the mousewheel itself is just the "generation of an excessive number of jump commands within a fraction of a second (input spamming)", as you said yourself above, and well thats because people were too bad to use spacebar and used that instead to input spam, literally the invention of scroll bhop.
Our rules target the generation of an excessive number of jump commands within a fraction of a second (input spamming). Whether this massive command chain is triggered by an unlocked hardware wheel, a software macro, or any other method does not change the impact on the server and the gameplay. The effect is identical: it floods the server with inputs to manipulate the landing physics for an unfair bunnyhop advantage.
so scrolling itself is the grey line of 'this rule' pretty much, as already kind of obvious the entire time in my arguments above, but again, i dont think this rule is really put into words by saying "hyperscroll" is not allowed, so personally i wouldnt really say hyperscroll is the valid reason (nor the macro i was banned for), so to conclude, i was either false banned or banned because of a never written down rule in the server. so id say, either way an unjust ban.
how do we continue, i dont know, the only fair option is to allow this for everybody unless
@Nikooo777 wants to make a plugin that functions in the way i described, if he even wants to read this. i dont think any other css server has a rule that dictates how to use your body on your mouse so i dont know if this has to be the first and only one in existence (and if u have to nerf me a 2nd time too).
hope you had fun reading the most 'scroll bhop theory' post in this entire forum, maybe even ever published in the entirety of the internet and possibly counter strike.
